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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
I was hoping someone could give some advice.
My wife received a Brand new diesel E pace in May which she took on personal lease for 4 years. She had the car for 2 weeks before the amber engine warning light came on and the car went into limp mode. The mechanic from jaguar assist came out to look at it, took it for a drive, plugged in a code reader and thought it might be a problem with the turbo but wasn't sure.
The car was booked into our nearest Jaguar dealer 30 miles away and we were told we had to get the car there, even with the warning light and it being in limp mode, which I thought was pretty poor for a brand new car from Jaguar. I just recently bought a six year old focus from Arnold clark which came with a 3 month warranty and there was an issue with the tyres, someone from the dealer I bought it from 60 miles away came up dropped off a courtesy car and took it back to get fixed.
Anyway it turned out it was the DPF system, the filter was allegedly full. The car manual says that there should be a DPF warning light to tell you to give the car a good blast but she didn't get any lights other than the engine warning light. Someone from the Jaguar dealer said she wasn't doing enough miles, there was 1200 miles on the clock when it happened and it was two weeks old, that's about 85 miles a day albeit there were 400 miles on the clock as it was driven up from the factory in England to us in Aberdeenshire.
Exactly the same thing has happened twice since, the second time it lasted 2 weeks before the engine warning light came on and the third time was a week. The car has spent more time in the garage than my wife has had it yet she still has to pay 300 pounds every month for it.
When it was in the Garage the third time a nice lady from Jaguar told us that the mechanics had came to the conclusion that it is my wife's driving that is causing the DPF issues and that it will no longer be repaired under the warranty and they want the courtesy car my wife has back or they will start charging her for it. After a conversation with me and this woman they decided out of the kindness of their hearts to fix it again this time as a gesture of goodwill. Funny how after it happened the first time and accusing her of not doing enough miles (I presume the trip average speed was too high to accuse her of driving too slowly) she was offered the first service from Jaguar for free.
My wife drives a minimum of 10k miles a year but I had to get her last lease car mileage up to 12k because she went over the 10k limit with her first lease car. Daily at a minimum she commutes 8 miles to her work and 8 miles back on country (60mph speed limit) roads and every other day she does the same distance again taking kids to activities, my wife is definitely not a slow driver and drives faster than me but she cannot keep at a constantly fast speed on these roads and according to the manual it needs to be driven at 37mph for 10minutes in order for the DPF system to work or 30mph for a longer period of time. I think she definitely drives within these parameters but where are any of the DPF indication lights, we haven't even seen the red DPF full light never mind the amber warning light. I work with car mechanics in my job and they do not agree with anything we are being told from the Jaguar dealer. Her last 2 cars were brand new lease Diesels with DPF systems, we never even knew they had DPF's because there was never any issues with them and she was doing the same commute. The second and third time it happened, Jaguar assist mechanics came out to look at the car and we explained the issues to them and they told us there was definitely a fault with the DPF system, as a brand new filter should not fill up in one week never mind.
My wife obviously wants to reject the car and now hates it and the way she has been treated by Jaguar. She has a very demanding stressful job that she requires reliable transport but she could be stuck with this for 4 years having to pay 1k plus to get the DPF filter replaced every few weeks.
I have been in touch with consumer rights about this and there latest response was that we need to prove that there is a fault with the car regardless of the car not being fit for purpose whether it is my wife's driving or not.
She is still waiting to hear back from the lease finance company but I am sure they will say something similar.
So worst case scenario my wife will be stuck with a car for 4 years that is not fit for purpose, so option 1 - Get another car and let the E pace sit on the drive as she pays 300 pounds a month for it as we cannot afford to pay for the DPF to be fixed every few weeks. Option 2 - drive the car constantly in 3/4th gear in order to keep the DPF happy or option 3 - which is apparently illegal.
I have real sympathy for my wife, for something my wife has been looking forward to for so long to turn into such a nightmare and is honestly beginning to affect her health. I see no alternative but to seek legal advice and possibly approach the media.
If anyone has got any constructive advice my wife and I would be very grateful.
 

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To save repeating things, click on my name and then Profile--> Search user posts. You should find everything that you need to build a rejection case under s9, s10 and s11 Consumer Rights Act 2015. Follow the links wherever they take you. Honestjohn has a good handle on this, so does the DS forum.
Good luck.
 
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Trentduval

I won't re-copy your post as it's the longest I have seen but I understand your points.

It does seem that the E-Pace D150 is very susceptible to DPF issues that do not seem to occur in the D180. In my D180 I do very short journeys but only every so often do a longer journey on the motorway.

There are a lot of D150 owners with the same problem as yourself but equally a lot that don't have any DOF issues at all.

Blaming driving style is a cop out by your dealer even if there is some technical truth in it. The DPF system does need to regenerate at high temperature when it needs too.

The salesman needs to do his job and advise that the modern Euro6 diesel engines are not always advised for owners that do frequent short low speed journeys.

When I am due to change my car in a couple of years I will go back to petrol as now I am retired I just am not doing the mileage that the diesel is best for.
 

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This car has a known fault. If the OP wasn't forewarned then the car was mis-sold. Anyone in this predicament faces a clear choice. Reject or suffer on. It won't get better because the exhaust hardware and architecture "challenges" were never beaten. PTA might offer some improvement but don't hold your breath.

Font Screenshot Parallel Magenta Document
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
murchison2003 said:
I can only presume coming from Aberdeenshire you had it at Jaguar Aberdeen, doesn't surprise me that they come out with that crap. I'll never put a car back there for anything.
Yes it was the one on Wellington road. Gave my wife an automatic gas guzzling Land rover courtesy car even though she had never driven a automatic in her life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
revoke said:
To save repeating things, click on my name and then Profile--> Search user posts. You should find everything that you need to build a rejection case under s9, s10 and s11 Consumer Rights Act 2015. Follow the links wherever they take you. Honestjohn has a good handle on this, so does the DS forum.
Good luck.
Thanks I'll look into that. I'm struggling to find Honestjohns posts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ctoneman said:
Trentduval

I won't re-copy your post as it's the longest I have seen but I understand your points.

It does seem that the E-Pace D150 is very susceptible to DPF issues that do not seem to occur in the D180. In my D180 I do very short journeys but only every so often do a longer journey on the motorway.

There are a lot of D150 owners with the same problem as yourself but equally a lot that don't have any DOF issues at all.

Blaming driving style is a cop out by your dealer even if there is some technical truth in it. The DPF system does need to regenerate at high temperature when it needs too.

The salesman needs to do his job and advise that the modern Euro6 diesel engines are not always advised for owners that do frequent short low speed journeys.

When I am due to change my car in a couple of years I will go back to petrol as now I am retired I just am not doing the mileage that the diesel is best for.
Thanks, yes sorry it is a bit long winded
 

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The fault affects E-Pace, Evoque and DS, all of which use the D8 floor pan. The engine compartment of this chassis won't accept the 2.0L diesel Ingenium engine with its original EU6 DPF (as fitted to the Jaguar XE) because the forward bulkhead is in the way. JLR designed an alternative exhaust which navigates round the bodywork obstructions but the pipework is too long which creates heat losses between the engine and the DPF. This causes lots of incomplete regenerations leading to clogged DPFs for people who only do short journeys. For other drivers it increases the demand for post injection which causes oil dilution, shortening service intervals regardless of journey length or speed. On the DS the average service interval was shown from analysis of owner submissions to be 8,300 miles. In a long-term stress test JLR engineers found that the average mileage before diesel dilution became too high to continue the test without risking engine failure was 9,170 miles.

The underlying engineering issues are described in more detail here:
https://www.epaceforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=249&p=5186#p5186

Honest John has covered it extensively for the DS.
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/land-rover/discovery-sport-2015/good/


It is covered at evoqueownersclub.co.uk and also here where owners go to vent their frustration.
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/forums/topic/miss-sold-diesel-with-dpf-problems/

This might be helpful for building a case for rejection.
https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9397
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My wife has just heard back from Lex finance today and very surprisingly they are letting her reject the car. She is trying to claim back some of the payments and the initial 800+ pound outlay for the lease deal as she will have to fork out this again for another lease car which I think is definitely going to be petrol.
Thanks for your help especially revoke.
 

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TRENTDUVAL said:
My wife has just heard back from Lex finance today and very surprisingly they are letting her reject the car. She is trying to claim back some of the payments and the initial 800+ pound outlay for the lease deal as she will have to fork out this again for another lease car which I think is definitely going to be petrol.
Thanks for your help especially revoke.
Excellent news! Four days to a successful D8 diesel rejection sets a new record but hopefully this won't be the last one.

Most complaints are met with an immediate blank denial of any systemic fault (this is not true of course, but it doesn't stop them trying it on). For the determined owner there's then the prospect of a wait that can last up to a year for an impartial ombudsman's hearing (NB: not so impartial in front of the motor ombudsman due to its familial DNA). Even then, not all cases are won, though there have been good outcomes recently with finance ombudsman rulings.

There was clearly something in your rejection submission that deterred them from stringing things out and it's probably some fact that you included that JLR desperately wants to keep out of the public domain.

Do you have any thoughts as to what might have triggered such a rapid allergic reaction?
 

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Hi,
I had the exactly same problem with my 2 months old E pace that I collected last November. It took them over 5 months to resolve the issue.
I've done 15k in the car and for the last 2k miles the service indicator has been on, but the service interval is suppose to be 2 years or 21000 miles.

Although I love the car but I regret buying it. This is the 1st time I've bought jaguar and will certainly be my last.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
revoke said:
TRENTDUVAL said:
My wife has just heard back from Lex finance today and very surprisingly they are letting her reject the car. She is trying to claim back some of the payments and the initial 800+ pound outlay for the lease deal as she will have to fork out this again for another lease car which I think is definitely going to be petrol.
Thanks for your help especially revoke.
Excellent news! Four days to a successful D8 diesel rejection sets a new record but hopefully this won't be the last one.

Most complaints are met with an immediate blank denial of any systemic fault (this is not true of course, but it doesn't stop them trying it on). For the determined owner there's then the prospect of a wait that can last up to a year for an impartial ombudsman's hearing (NB: not so impartial in front of the motor ombudsman due to its familial DNA). Even then, not all cases are won, though there have been good outcomes recently with finance ombudsman rulings.

There was clearly something in your rejection submission that deterred them from stringing things out and it's probably some fact that you included that JLR desperately wants to keep out of the public domain.

Do you have any thoughts as to what might have triggered such a rapid allergic reaction?
I presume it must have been the draft letter from Consumer advice that I added all my concerns to and sent to Lex. Although I thought Consumer advice were a waste of time because the last time they contacted me they said we had to prove there was a fault with the car.
 

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To YM 1969, the numbers 21000 or 2 years are not set in stone, the car monitors usage and determines from journeys, whether car is doing low speed short runs or high speed cruising and calculates useful life of the oil, I would suggest you visit dealer and verify the required service date, as you risk invalidating warranty if you run outside of acceptable distance, all is explained in the handbook, Tony.
 

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If the engine isn't getting up to temperature to run a proper DPF regeneration the system automatically overfuels to raise the temperature to run a "short cycle" regeneration. If the engine is stopped during this process, that additional fuel can be dumped into the sump, thinning the oil and reducing it's usable life and shortening the interval between services. Always go by the dash message.
 
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