I have an epace D150. At around 4000 miles 5 months the service warning light started to illuminate during starting. The dealer said it was probably a computer glitch and nothing to worry about. The first service isn't due till 2 years or 24000 miles. Took it in today and they updated the main computer software. They said it could be due to carbon build up in the engine and said I would need an oil filter change for which they quoted £200 otherwise it would void the warranty because they thought I might have been doing short journeys. Apart from a visit to the local supermarket a couple of times a week much of our journeys are 40 to 250 mile motorway trips.
Premature Service Warning Light
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Good Morning TraoreTraore said:
Thank you for your post.
Diesel vehicles equipped with a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) have more efficient emissions control. The function of the DPF, is to collect particles in the exhaust gases during normal driving.
Cleaning of the DPF, also known as regeneration, occurs automatically between approximately every 186 to 559 miles (300 to 900 km) depending on driving conditions, and requires the engine to reach normal operating temperature.
This self-cleaning takes place when the vehicle is driven steadily at speeds between 40 mph to 70 mph (60 km/h to 112 km/h). Self cleaning may not always occur and this can be for a number of reasons. Some driving conditions (e.g., frequently driving short distances, in slow-moving traffic, or in cold weather) may not provide sufficient opportunity to begin the exhaust filter self-cleaning automatically.
When this happens an amber warning light will be displayed on the dash, and Manual Regeneration is required. Driving above 40 mph (60 km/h) for 20 minutes should clean the filter. Please see the below video link for a guide to Manual Regeneration.
From your post, it seems this is what the Retailer has advised. Should you require any assistance, or wish for me to investigate this further please do not hesitate to contact me via PM and provide the following information:
Your Vehicle Identification Number
Your personal contact details
Many Thanks
Dan - Jaguar UK
I have a simpler explanation. There is a recall to fix a problem where the service indicator in the car comes on too early. That seems to me to be the problem Traore is describing. Nothing to do with carbon build up or DPF regeneration. I had the same problem, my dealership did the fix (foc of course) and now it is indicating a sensible service date.
According to the handbook there is a DPF warning light that illuminates if regeneration is needed. You didn't mention anything about that happening in your car, so I don't see why you would need an oil filter change.
Question is, did your dealer apply the recall fix when they updated your software? If not, why not? If so then they know about the recall so why are they trying to charge you for an apparently unnecessary oil filter change, with accompanying threats about voiding your warranty? Either way, change your dealer.
According to the handbook there is a DPF warning light that illuminates if regeneration is needed. You didn't mention anything about that happening in your car, so I don't see why you would need an oil filter change.
Question is, did your dealer apply the recall fix when they updated your software? If not, why not? If so then they know about the recall so why are they trying to charge you for an apparently unnecessary oil filter change, with accompanying threats about voiding your warranty? Either way, change your dealer.
Thank you for your responses. Firstly to be clear. No warning lights illuminate. At start up there is a message at the centre of the display stating " service required press ok to cancel". We have been getting this message on and off since the car was about 5 months old. All of our journeys involve travelling for the first 5 miles on a stretch oh road w it's a 60 mph speed limit no hold ups. We travel to Manchester from the Wirral on the M56 at least once per week. Return distance approx 70 miles. If the car cannot cope with this it is not fit for purpose.
The dealer took a measurement of the carbon in the oil which gave a reading of just over 5. They said if it goes over 7 the warranty is void. They said it would be best to change the oil filter. What I don't understand is how that would reduce the reading. Surely it would need an oil change. Is the car constantly monitoring carbon in oil and the service warning coming on if it goes over 5. The car had done around 4000 miles when the service warning started appearing. How can that be my fault. Why does it cost £200 to change on oil filter. Do they have to strip the engine down to access it. I am extremely disappointed with Jaguar.
Is the service warning set to appear at designated mileage or is it monitoring some parameters which have exceeded limits? If so what does it monitor. Why doesnt it come on every time the ending is started.
The dealer took a measurement of the carbon in the oil which gave a reading of just over 5. They said if it goes over 7 the warranty is void. They said it would be best to change the oil filter. What I don't understand is how that would reduce the reading. Surely it would need an oil change. Is the car constantly monitoring carbon in oil and the service warning coming on if it goes over 5. The car had done around 4000 miles when the service warning started appearing. How can that be my fault. Why does it cost £200 to change on oil filter. Do they have to strip the engine down to access it. I am extremely disappointed with Jaguar.
Is the service warning set to appear at designated mileage or is it monitoring some parameters which have exceeded limits? If so what does it monitor. Why doesnt it come on every time the ending is started.
Hi Traore
I can't answer all your questions, but here are some thoughts that might help.
Firstly, have you checked the next service indicator on the screen behind the steering wheel? This tells you how many miles till your next service and is supposed to take account of driving style - which might cause some variation from the 'normal' service interval of 21000 miles for diesels. I don't know what parameters it uses to assess driving conditions. But from the description you give of your driving, I wouldn't expect it to vary by more than a couple of thousand miles or so. I assume this display is linked to the 'service required' message you are getting, so it might help to know exactly what it is saying, and whether it is consistent over time. Of course, you need to add the miles you've already done to the indicated miles to next service to compare what your car is saying with the nominal 21000 figure. If this reading on your car turns out to be acceptable, then maybe you have an intermittent fault with the 'service required' message you sometimes get.
To see this indicator, press 'menu' on the left hand steering wheel spoke and scroll down to 'vehicle info'. Select this then scroll down to 'next service' and select. Before I had the recall done on my car, this was telling me that I would need a service at 13000 miles. After the fix it now says 19000, which seems OK. When I first contacted my dealership to tell them that a service was indicated at 13000 miles they immediately said that can't be right so it must need the recall I've described. No b... s.... about my driving style, or DPF or anything. So you really shouldn't need an oil service at 4000 miles.
Secondly, if the carbon in the oil really is reading high, even though you don't seem to have had the DPF warning light come on then there is something else wrong with the car and the dealer should be fixing that under warranty, not trying to charge you for a filter change.
Finally, I would hope that when your dealership talks about an oil filter change they are taking it for granted that this includes an oil change - you would hardly drain the oil in order to change the filter and then put the old oil back in. That would go some way to explaining the £200 charge. But I don't think you should be paying this anyway.
I can't answer all your questions, but here are some thoughts that might help.
Firstly, have you checked the next service indicator on the screen behind the steering wheel? This tells you how many miles till your next service and is supposed to take account of driving style - which might cause some variation from the 'normal' service interval of 21000 miles for diesels. I don't know what parameters it uses to assess driving conditions. But from the description you give of your driving, I wouldn't expect it to vary by more than a couple of thousand miles or so. I assume this display is linked to the 'service required' message you are getting, so it might help to know exactly what it is saying, and whether it is consistent over time. Of course, you need to add the miles you've already done to the indicated miles to next service to compare what your car is saying with the nominal 21000 figure. If this reading on your car turns out to be acceptable, then maybe you have an intermittent fault with the 'service required' message you sometimes get.
To see this indicator, press 'menu' on the left hand steering wheel spoke and scroll down to 'vehicle info'. Select this then scroll down to 'next service' and select. Before I had the recall done on my car, this was telling me that I would need a service at 13000 miles. After the fix it now says 19000, which seems OK. When I first contacted my dealership to tell them that a service was indicated at 13000 miles they immediately said that can't be right so it must need the recall I've described. No b... s.... about my driving style, or DPF or anything. So you really shouldn't need an oil service at 4000 miles.
Secondly, if the carbon in the oil really is reading high, even though you don't seem to have had the DPF warning light come on then there is something else wrong with the car and the dealer should be fixing that under warranty, not trying to charge you for a filter change.
Finally, I would hope that when your dealership talks about an oil filter change they are taking it for granted that this includes an oil change - you would hardly drain the oil in order to change the filter and then put the old oil back in. That would go some way to explaining the £200 charge. But I don't think you should be paying this anyway.
Hello fellow JLR owners.
The problems of higher than expected oil dilution, premature service indication, frequent DPF AMBER warnings, DPF RED warnings with no AMBER first, EGR component failure, etc. are all caused by a design issue which affects cars built on JLR's D8 chassis since the introduction of EU6 NOx limits in September 2015. The exhaust of the transverse diesel engines is not close-coupled (as on a Jaguar XE) and therefore it remains too cold in "normal" driving for the system to cope with the amount of soot being produced by the Ingenium engine.
Honest John's column published this information in October 2017 in relation to the Discovery Sport. Two damning documents by JLR illustrate that the company knew about the issue and tried to prevent dealers misselling these cars to people who were using the wrong "driving style". Later, after widespread misselling had occurred and the floodgates of complaints opened, dealers began an organised campaign of blaming the drivers. Nice.
The text reproduced above by CRC doesn't give the full story. Due to "engineering challenges" a vital DPF process called "passive regeneration" only works partially if the engine is worked really hard. This means that "rural" and "urban" drivers are very likely to suffer from problems including excessive oil dilution and clogged filters. More demanding driving styles will avoid the DPF clogging but the problem of higher than expected oil dilution is still present to a greater or lesser extent.
File URLs are provided below these images.
![Font Parallel Screenshot Number Document]()
![Font Parallel Rectangle Screenshot Number]()
https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=5997
https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5379&p=108120#p108120
The problems of higher than expected oil dilution, premature service indication, frequent DPF AMBER warnings, DPF RED warnings with no AMBER first, EGR component failure, etc. are all caused by a design issue which affects cars built on JLR's D8 chassis since the introduction of EU6 NOx limits in September 2015. The exhaust of the transverse diesel engines is not close-coupled (as on a Jaguar XE) and therefore it remains too cold in "normal" driving for the system to cope with the amount of soot being produced by the Ingenium engine.
Honest John's column published this information in October 2017 in relation to the Discovery Sport. Two damning documents by JLR illustrate that the company knew about the issue and tried to prevent dealers misselling these cars to people who were using the wrong "driving style". Later, after widespread misselling had occurred and the floodgates of complaints opened, dealers began an organised campaign of blaming the drivers. Nice.
The text reproduced above by CRC doesn't give the full story. Due to "engineering challenges" a vital DPF process called "passive regeneration" only works partially if the engine is worked really hard. This means that "rural" and "urban" drivers are very likely to suffer from problems including excessive oil dilution and clogged filters. More demanding driving styles will avoid the DPF clogging but the problem of higher than expected oil dilution is still present to a greater or lesser extent.
File URLs are provided below these images.
https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=5997
https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5379&p=108120#p108120
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Ah, that will be why I had a free oil and filter change last week, when I mentioned the early service message to my very helpful service team at the JLR dealer.
He also mentioned a) a recall for a wiring issue on the DPF andb) a software update to solve the oil dilution causing the early service message.
I had b) done along with the oil change, but he said my model wasn't included in a)
Reading a little more into this, I'm not sure a diesel should have been recommended to me, as we have a 40mph speed limit here so I could never perform a manual regeneration, and our driving style would be considered urban\rural
He also mentioned a) a recall for a wiring issue on the DPF andb) a software update to solve the oil dilution causing the early service message.
I had b) done along with the oil change, but he said my model wasn't included in a)
Reading a little more into this, I'm not sure a diesel should have been recommended to me, as we have a 40mph speed limit here so I could never perform a manual regeneration, and our driving style would be considered urban\rural
The software upgrade referred to could be the one that will raise the diesel dilution trigger from 6% to 10%. On the Land Rovers this is called N289 and its true purpose was recently confirmed by CRC.
To the other posters. If you are seeing premature service messages it is very likely that this is due to high diesel dilution, not because of a software fault or update that is required. They were pedalling these and other misleading statements to DS and Evoque owners from Spring 2016. By the time the first E-Paces were handed over they had become quite slick with the excuses. With N289 installed many drivers won't have the faintest idea that their engines are carrying up to 10% diesel in the oil. But an oil test would tell the truth.
Oddly, this means that when the diesel dilution next reaches an estimated 6% there will no longer be a warning that the oil needs changing to prevent engine failure as described in JLRP00100. According to the latest JLR publication it looks as though your vehicle could well have been missold within the meaning of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
To the other posters. If you are seeing premature service messages it is very likely that this is due to high diesel dilution, not because of a software fault or update that is required. They were pedalling these and other misleading statements to DS and Evoque owners from Spring 2016. By the time the first E-Paces were handed over they had become quite slick with the excuses. With N289 installed many drivers won't have the faintest idea that their engines are carrying up to 10% diesel in the oil. But an oil test would tell the truth.
Thanks, as I specifically raised the Evoque DPF / typical driving cycle issues when buying my ePace and was told that "the DPF in th ePace is closer to the manifold to get the heat up quicker" by the salesman, I think I'll be having quite a frank discussion with them soon...
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